Well theNational Catholic Reporter
set me off. The cries of injustice (believe me if we could we would ordain them) this isn’t a secret men’s club that is suppressing women. All of those issues are moot. Though church bans women priests more and more women are saying, ‘Why wait?’
by PAMELA SCHAEFFER.
Woman IMO have always had a clearer understanding of the spiritual realm then men. I think this is because they have the gift from God to bear children. The connection between the life growing within ones body is a miracle and woman have a stronger sense of creating and maintaining bonds within the community. The church has throughout it’s history offered opportunities for women that secular society up until this century was denied them. Heading up hospitals, convents, schools, allowing upper level education have been a hallmark of the church.
No one has an entitlement or a right to being a priest. One is called by God, one doesn’t tell God they have a right to be a priest based on gender. Perhaps as our Lord says “It not you who chose me, but I who chose you…” Jn 15:16 .However, now some are attempting to claim the church is oppressive to women by denying them access into the ministerial priesthood. Some men are denied as well and this IS by canon law only not doctrinally as is the case for women. I’m married and I can’t be a priest. If I felt called to be a deacon I still have to have permission from my wife to do so. In this age it’s rather difficult to see obedience as anything but oppression. This is because rights are touted over responsibilities; self-absorption is promoted over self-sacrifice.
As all powerful and all knowing as detractors of the papacy think it(the papacy) claims for its self the document Ordinatio Sacerdotal points out that
2. the Church does not consider herself authorized to admit women to priestly ordination.
IOW the papacy and the collective church has no authority to grant women into the priesthood, even if it desired to do so.
4.Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.
Note that the church doesn’t say it doesn’t want women as priest. It says it doesn’t have the authority to do so; implied here is that even if it wanted to it couldn’t. What you mean the papacy acknowledges that it doesn’t have authority to over rule anything foundational to the Church? Yes Roman Catholic Women priests that’s what it means.
Thankfully Archbishop Burke was pro-active in re-stating the church position on this on November 9, 2007
An the archbishop raises the second grave issue of attempting to celebrate Mass by these newly “ordained” priestess. Bring scandal, disobedience and sacrilege gives one a whole new meaning to church lady. I have no problem if they feel called by their god to worship as they deem fit and necessary, just drop the catholic from their claims and allow everyone to go on with their lives.
I also find it offensive that a Jewish community would offer up their Jewish synagogue to ordain two local Catholic women as priests. First I would think that Jews would take offense to anyone using their synagogue for non Jewish rites. Secondly if the shoe was on the other foot, I’m sure that they would not take kindly to some non Jewish religious community providing a save harbour to disgruntled Jews intent on causing scandal and sacrilege to their faith.
Thankfully the local archbishop, Pope John Paul II declared the position of the ancient church; and JOSEPH Card. RATZINGER excommunicated the Danube Seven.
It is sad that women who have such energy, obvious theological education, desire to serve their community have channelled it into such destructive manners. I guess thankfully both sides have come out and drawn lines in the sand. At least everyone knows where they stand or fall as the case may be.Other then prayers for the women, prayers for those who helped assisted them, prayers for those scandalized and prayers for the sacrilege of offering up a false mass.
Site supports Most Reverend Jose H. Gomez
Bishop Kevin W. Vann
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Cradle catholic* Charterhouse 
The Pope is indeed bound by rule of law: the claim of papal infallibility is, I think, properly understood as a function of church infallibility, a belief held in common with the Eastern churches.
I don’t call things Roman Catholic that aren’t under Rome so RCWP and bad media coverage of them are guilty of blatant false advertising.
(To be fair to many of these women they’ve taken all the bad catechesis they’ve heard over 40 years, nominally in the Roman Church, to a logical conclusion.)
Nor do I say ‘priestess’ because it means ‘non-Christian’ and is not fair to the Episcopal women priests who are Christian disciples, even though I’m not in communion with them.
Pedantry: if you do use that word you don’t need to add ‘woman’ before it.
ISTM the right approach to the public protest of RCWP is not to make a scene and publicly excommunicate people. For several reasons they’ve excommunicated themselves (latæ sententiæ for the canonists out there): they’ve left the Roman Church and joined the wild, woolly world of little ‘independent Catholic’ (vagante) churches where Catholic ofter really means ‘the right person zapped me with ordination so now I can do whatever I want’. In this case it’s a theology like the mainline Protestant mainstream in America (we’ve followed the American dream and arrived, baby) but the culture of ‘AmChurch’ modern Novus Ordo (what they think Catholic is so none of mainline Protestantism’s charm from architecture to music to liturgy to manners).
Good points about the synagogue. I made the same point elsewhere about hypothetical disgruntled Jews (Jews for Jesus for example) using a Christian church as a base.
“We have a lot of new applicants,” Fresen said in an interview the week before the ordinations. “I now have five assistant program coordinators, and we can barely keep up. It has amazed me. We never thought it would take off like this.”
This reminds me of another vagante trait in RCWP. So how many churches has Bishop Fresen got that she needs so many priests? Chances are few to none. The vagante thing is usually about ex-RCs who don’t really have a ministry but for any number of reasons (like wearing a collar to show off) really, really wanna be priests.
(In this case it’s obviously a protest/spite move against the big church they’re mad at.)
To be fair some RCWPs, such as one near me who used to have church right in my neighbourhood at the Methodist place, do minister to vagante congregations. That gets respect from me even though I’m not on board.
Serge:”Nor do I say ‘priestess’ because it means ‘non-Christian’ and is not fair to the Episcopal women priests who are Christian disciples, even though I’m not in communion with them.”
QB: Your almost correct. It means non- Jewish, non-Christian. A priest is one who offers sacrifice to God. Therefore, I don’t believe one can equate Christian with permitting women priests. The Catholic position is that this is foundational to the church, not a secondary issue that allows latitude. I would be willing to call them ministers or even pastors for those Christian communities that permit it, but never priest.
A woman bishop is of an even higher level of error adding ordination of priests and bishops to sacrifice.
Serge: “Pedantry: if you do use that word you don’t need to add ‘woman’ before it.”
QB: Well you know me enough that I’m impressed I can spell it. I’m certainly not brave enough to have thought let alone say what you have; but can I use it and blame you on the quote?
Serge:”The vagante thing is usually about ex-RCs who don’t really have a ministry but for any number of reasons (like wearing a collar to show off) really, really wanna be priests.”
QB: Agreed and I’ll add that they use to have job’s but the speakers fees from Spirit of Vat II” priests and bishops is drying up and they have to get a real job.
Just a note: For most Protestants there’s no “zapping with ordination”. So female ministers in those churches that have them don’t usually understand themselves to have been “imprinted with a charism” indelible or otherwise.
But wrt this “Catholic” problem: I think it may have a good deal to do with a semi-magical attitude toward the Sacraments generally.
I don’t know if it was a kid of ex opere operato reaction against lurking montanist tendencies, but this attitude has lingered.
This idea of being “zapped” is nothing more than a rather primitve understanding of Catholic belief on ho all the Sacraments actually work.
Now, this doesn’t mean it’s wrong because, after all, abuse doesn’t nullify use, but I do think the church hasn’t done itself many favors in correcting popular misconceptions.
An example would be all the emotionally and psychologically immature homosexual men who believed they could sublimate their sexuality with a collar. Many of them have gone on record as saying that they really believed that Holy Orders would protest them from their unholy desires.
It didn’t, it made monsters of some of them.
“ho” should be “how” and “protest” should be “protect”
Interesting response Mike. The only corrective I would make is I don’t in any way believe that Holy Orders made homosexual men monsters. I don’t think you intended to say that, but I am infering it from what you said.
Have you ever witnessed an Ordination mass.
I didn’t say Holy Orders made them monsters.
Their attempt to sublimate their homosexuality in a collar eventuated in their becoming monsters since it is almost always the case that emotionally and psychically immature people who try to do this sort of thing inevitably find that it rebounds on them, with a vengeance.
Sin grows in the dark.
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